It is not necessary to deal at any great length with the merits of the request made by the deputation which waited upon Mr. Illingworth on behalf of the Public Library, Museum, and Art Gallery. They asked for nothing more than the fulfillment of a promise, but they found it necessary to remind the Minister that they performed their duties gratuitously and for the benefit of the public before they could obtain even a courteous hearing of their case.

It will be remembered that when the Duke of York was here he was prevailed upon to lay the foundation-stone of the new wing of the Public Library, having been first assured by Sir Arthur Lawley that it was intended to proceed with the erection of the building. Money for the purpose had been promised by the Throssell Government, and the Leake Government had plans for the work, so that the deputation may reasonably have felt some little comfort in approaching the Minister.

They were able to show that the additional space was urgently needed—that for lack of it many books for the Library, pictures for the Gallery, and collections for the Museum had to be stored away in the basement. The medical men who accompanied the deputation also pointed out that the reading-room was frequently crowded to such an extent as to be prejudicial to health. In addition to having a good case, the deputation were strengthened by the inclusion among their numbers of a Minister of the Crown, and in the circumstances they may well have felt assured of a sympathetic hearing.

Instead of receiving this, however, the speakers were subjected to rude interruptions by the Minister, and they were treated as though they were trying to get something out of the public Treasury for their own personal advantage. The question of whether the condition of the State finances justified the granting of the request fades into insignificance beside the extraordinary stand taken up by the Minister for Education, and the peculiar views he announced as to the educational value of libraries, art galleries and the like.

Apparently Mr. Illingworth looks upon a public library merely as a counter-attraction to the hotels. In so far as it is likely to assist the temperance cause it has his sympathy, but beyond that he considers it a luxury and a toy. His reason for sending the deputation to another Minister is not very clear. As Treasurer and Minister for Education the matter came entirely within his jurisdiction. The Public Works Department, as Mr. Rason pointed out, has nothing to do with the question of the policy of erecting such buildings. Their duty is merely to carry out the work resolved upon by Cabinet and approved by Parliament.

From the attitude of Dr. Jameson and Mr. Rason, there is reason to hope that the request of the deputation will receive fair consideration at the hands of the Government, the Minister for Education’s opposition notwithstanding.

Mr. Illingworth declares that for every one person, who goes to the Museum to study hundreds go there for mere pleasure. Without admitting the accuracy of this, it may be asked whether it is not the duty of the Government to encourage people to indulge in such pleasure as this.

Though our Minister for Education will not admit it, it is hardly conceivable that any man can make a practice of visiting a well-appointed library and museum without becoming in consequence a better man and a more useful citizen. From Mr. Illingworth's point of view it is evidently an outrageous thing to spend money on the pleasures of the people, however beneficial those pleasures may be, but the ordinary taxpayer is likely to take up the position that he would rather subscribe to the maintenance of a good public library than pay the expenses of an over-manned Ministry, an over-manned Parliament, and an over-manned civil service.

Now that federation has been brought about, there should be no need for six State Ministers, nor for eighty members of the State Parliament, and the salaries of these superfluous administrators and legislators for a single year would be more than sufficient to meet the requirements of yesterday's deputation.

The number of visitors to the Public Library is between 40,000 and 50,000 per annum, and this total would be greatly increased if additional facilities were afforded. Strangers in the city, and even local residents, find considerable difficulty in profitably employing their hours of leisure, and it is safe to say that there is not a city in Australia where a thoroughly-equipped public reading-room is more urgently required than in Perth.

Mr. Illingworth's open hostility to institutions of this character is not likely to be overlooked when Parliament meets. It quite unfits him for the office of Minister for Education, and furnishes another argument in favor of a change in the Government. It has often been said that a city and its people are judged in a great measure by the standards they set up in their libraries, art galleries, and museums, and it will not reflect to the credit of Western Australia that her capital is deficient in these requirements, and that her Minister for Education regards them as needless luxuries and toys.

It will be remembered that during his visit to Perth the Prince of Wales
(then, Duke of Cornwall and York) laid the foundation-stone of the
proposed additions to the Victoria Public Library and West Australian
Museum. Tenders were also called for the work, and duly received, but for
some reason the erection of the additions not been proceeded with by the
Government, much to the disgust of the committee of management, who have
by no means sufficient accommodation for their exhibits, samples, and
books. Yesterday, by arrangement, a deputation, consisting of members of
the committee, Sir James Lee Steere, M.L.A., Dr. Jameson, M.L.C., Dr,
Harvey, and Dr. Kelsall, with Mr. B. H. Woodward (the Director of the
Museum) and Mr. J. S. Battye (Librarian), waited on the Colonial Treasurer
and Minister for Education (Mr. F. Illingworth, M.L.A.) to advocate the
provision of a sum of money for the immediate building of the addition.

Sir James Lee Steere explained that what the deputation wanted was that
the Government should place on the minutes a sum of money, in order to
erect the contemplated additions to the Library and Museum, the plans of
which had already been prepared, and the foundation-stone laid by the
Prince of Wales last year. His Royal Highness laid the foundation-stone on
the distinct understanding that the buildings were to be proceeded with,
because he had stated that he would not lay the foundation-stone of any
building unless it was intended to proceed with it at once. His Royal
Highness had been assured by His Excellency the Governor that the plans
and estimates had been prepared, and that it was intended that the
additions should be gone on with at once. He (Sir James) did not know what
his Royal Highness would say now, were he aware that the undertaking had
not been carried out.

Mr. Illingworth : We could only plead that there has been a change of
government.

Sir James Lee Steere argued that, inasmuch as the promise had been made by
Mr. Throssell and Sir John Forrest when in office, and inasmuch as Mr.
Leake, on assuming office, had promised to carry out the undertakings of
his predecessors, the committee were justified in looking to the present
Government to provide the funds for the addition to the Library and
Museum. Mr. Throssell, after an inspection of the present buildings, had
stated it was absolutely necessary to provide more accommodation, and, in
order that that could be done, he promised to place a sum on the
Estimates. Then, after the Leake Government took office, plans were
prepared and tenders invited and sent in. The present Government,
therefore, ought to carry out the promise that had been made. There could
be no doubt whatever that matters at the Museum and Library must come to a
standstill unless the committee were given more accommodation.

Mr. Illingworth : Is it not time that they should come to a standstill?
They are in the nature of luxurious.

Sir James Lee Steere : Certainly not, and I cannot understand any person
in Australia forming such  an opinion, because in all these States,
democratic as they are, there is never a refusal by Parliament to grant
money for such a purpose.

Mr. Illingworth : In Victoria, when the population was half a million,
they had not as great accommodation as you have, and here the population
is only about 200,000.

Sir James Lee Steere said that in Victoria they had far more
accommodation, proportionately, than the committee here had. Public
libraries museums were a necessity from an educational and from a
commercial point of view. They were to established merely for the pleasure
of the people, or as things simply to be looked at, but in order to
provide a means of education for the public The institutions ought not to
be allowed to remain stationary ; they should be progressive institutions,
and any sums of money to make them such ought to be provided by the
Government. Sir James added that a report on the matter had been received
from the Director, Mr. Woodward, which showed the absolute necessity for
more accommodation. It was apparent that it was desirable that the
pictures should held by the public. At present, however, there was no room
for them to be properly exhibited.

Mr. Illingworth :That might apply if the space were a hundred times as
large as it is.

Sir James Lee Steere pointed out to the Minister that in all British
dominions the modern movement was to establish pubic libraries and museums
in all important towns. That was done as a means of education, but here,
when the director of technical education brought his art students to the
Museum they had not sufficient accommodation to properly display all the
exhibits in their possession. Mr. Woodward's report was as follows :—

“In the report of the Museum Committee to Parliament in 1897-8, the
urgency of erecting an art gallery was mentioned. Again in 1898-9, with a
further request for accommodation for the mineral and geological specimens
as well. In 1899-1900, the Committee went into full particulars of their
wants, when they formed a deputation to the Premier and Colonial
Treasurer, who approved of the designs submitted by the Public Works
Department. In 1901 the Committee received a visit from the Premier and
Parliament, and the Premier promised that the Beaufort-street wing should
be proceeded with at once, in accordance with the vote that had been
passed by the Legislative Assembly. Tenders were called. The promise was
confirmed when the Duke laid the foundation stone The Committee in their
report 1900-1, again called attention to the urgency of supplying
accommodation for the proper exhibition of the natural resources of the
State, the question being one of such vast importance from a commercial
point of view, now that so many visitors passing in the mail steamers come
up from Fremantle for a few hours.

[Missing text from photocopy]

… an educational point of view, it is most deplorable that the exhibits
should have to be packed so closely together that they cannot be well seen
; that the paintings should be hung in a badly lighted portion of the old
gaol, and that fully a third of the collection should be packed away in
cases, cabinets, and boxes where they are liable to be damaged from
insects, etc.  The Rothschild collection of birds has been waiting two
years for space as well as many smaller collections. The arts and crafts
collections, so important to the students of the Technical College are for
the most part out of sight, and the remainder are distributed in odd
corners about the galleries wherever space could he found, instead of
being systematically arranged for use and study. The timber and other
specimens that have attracted so much attention in Paris and Glasgow are
now returning, but their former places have been filled by other
specimens, and there is no room to store them, as all the outhouses are
filled. About 1,000 specimens will arrive from the British Museum in a few
weeks' time ; a large collection from the Florence Museum, and another of
Japanese art from Tokio, and more black and white are expected from Mr.
Pennell.”

Sir James Lee Steere, continuing, pointed out that in, respect to the
books, they were quite as badly off as in connection with the museum
exhibits. They had no room for the books now in their possession, to say
nothing of new volumes. They were stowed away in the basement and stacked
in close, dark places where they could not be seen by anyone. The room was
frequently overcrowded by those who went there to read, which tended to
the injury of health. Dr. Kelsall had, the other day, called attention to
the want of sanitation, owing to the crowded state of the room.

Mr. Illingworth : That is a reflection upon the construction of the
building and the facilities for ventilation. In such a large building
there ought to be as much space as in St. George's Cathedral.

Sir James Lee Steere pointed out that the members of the committee gave
their services, and had no personal interests to serve in connection with
the matter. They, however, took great interest in the institution, and
desired to see it increase.

Mr. Illingworth : But there must be a limitation.

Sir James Lee Steere : I would not place a limitation on an institution
like this.

Mr. Illingworth said the committee's estimates were getting larger and
larger. Questions relating to the erection of buildings, however, did not
come within his purview at all. Those were matters for the Minister for
Works.

Sir James Lee Steere : And if we go to him he will say, “I will approve of
it if you can get the Treasury to find the money.”

Mr. Illingworth said that when Mr. Throssell, as Premier, made the promise
of the additions to the institution, he (Mr. Throssell) told him that the
one thing that the country was crying out for was a healthy crop of first-
class “noes.” He (Mr. Illingworth) had had to produce as good a crop as he
could. They must face the question that had arisen in this State. People
all over the State were crying out for mechanics’ or miners’ institutes or
institutions of that character, and our  population was but a little over
200,000. We now had a Library here that would be creditable to a
population of half a million of people. The people must realise the fact
that there were limits to resources and our expenditure. The Government
was pruning down the Civil Services and there was an outcry in all
directions ; indeed,' it was pruning down even to a point that was not,
perhaps, quite justified. The Government was reducing the staff and
refusing increase in salaries. In the face of that, how could the
Government turn round and give large sums of money to institutions like
the Victoria Public Library and Museum, which had already had vast sums of
money spent on it, and which came this year upon the funds of the State
for increased sums? Of course, the argument that the committee had no room
for its specimens would not hold good. If it had not enough room, it
showed it had too many specimens. For each person who went to the Museum
for the purposes of study, hundreds went for mere pleasure. He would be
pleased to see the Library extended to three times its present size if
they had the money to do it with. They had not, however, got the money.

Sir James Lee Steere contended that the Victoria Library and Museum stood
on a very different footing from the numerous mechanics’ institutes in the
country districts, the latter being merely local institutions.

Mr. Illingworth said he could not accept that contention. The men out in
the backblocks—the bone and sinew of the country—would have no place to
meet in but the public house were it not for those institutes. Those
people must be considered before people who lived in the cities, who
enjoyed every possible advantage imaginable, and who, if need be, could
get books from the private libraries 5s. or 10s. a year. The country
mechanics’’ and miners’ institutes had a claim upon the Government, but
the Government could not even meet their requirements. They had demands
coming in for recreation grounds and mechanics’ institutes which were
altogether beyond the revenue of the State. They could not be met with in
their entirety, in addition to the other State requirements, without a
revenue of six millions a year. They also had to face the fact that the
railways would not pay.

Sir James Lee Steere : Some say there will be a large overplus in the
railways.

Mr. Illingworth : They speak without knowledge. Continuing, Mr.
Illingworth pointed out that the State would have to pay this year as
interest, etc., on the Goldfields Water Scheme £160,000, without a
shilling return. They also had to face the fact that the sliding scale
would commence to operate in October next. The question then presented
itself as to how the money could be raised.

Sir James Lee Steere said the cost of the proposed additions would be
between £13,000 and £14,000—£8,000 for the Library and £6,000 for the
Museum and Art Gallery.

Mr. Illingworth said the committee and the public ought to be well
satisfied with what had been achieved so far, and, in respect to a further
extension, they ought to have a little patience. The question that the
deputation had raised, however, was one to be determined by the Minister
for Works. If Mr. Rason said that the work was to be done, he (Mr.
Illingworth), as Treasurer, would have to find the money.

Sir James Lee Steere : I do not think it is any good going to him, because
he will say : “You must see the Treasurer and ascertain if he can find the
money.”

Mr. Illingworth also pointed out that the Government had to face another
pro- …

[Missing text from photocopy]

 … to be. The Government also had to face the agitation to do away with
the sliding scale ; and if that agitation prevailed, it would have to
reconsider its position. There would also be a reduction in the State
revenue if, as seemed likely, our principal trading concern were run at a
loss. In view of all those facts, and that the goldfields water supply
scheme had not yet been brought to a paying condition, it was unreasonable
to expect a very large expenditure on such a building as the additions to
the Library and Museum.

Sir James Lee Steere: Do you not think you can find £6,000 for the
Beaufort-street end?

Mr. Illingworth asked the committee to look at the question as reasonable
business men. Which would they say ought to be done—to spend the money as
they proposed in adding to the present large institution, or in miners’
institutes or schools or hospitals in the backblocks, where men had no
accommodation except the public-house, and not even a church?

Sir James Lee Steere : They would not go if they had one.

Mr. Illingworth : In such a case, what would you do? We cannot even supply
schools or hospitals or miners’ institutes all over the place. What are we
to do? Are we to put £13,000 more on to the Public Library in Perth?

Sir James Lee Steere : I would certainly spend money in increasing that
building.

Mr. Illingworth : And let the hospitals go?

Sir James Lee Steere : Men, when they are sick, should be sent to the
central places.

Mr. Illingworth said he could not agree with Sir James. He preferred
seeing hospitals in the back-blocks, where the men were amongst their
work, and where it seemed to him the hospitals were, most needed. There
were districts in the State now where people were dying because there were
no medical men and hospital facilities within their reach. They had now to
face the problem whether they were to go on spending large sums of money
on those things which were rather in the nature of luxuries than absolute
necessities.

Sir James Lee Steere : I cannot agree with you that libraries and museums
are luxuries. They are necessities.

Mr. Woodward informed the Minister that people frequently came to the
Institution and wanted to see some of the sample products of the State.
The Institution might therefore be regarded as being an encouragement and
help to local industries.

Mr. Illingworth : It does not do us the slightest bit of good in that
direction. It is simply a toy to most of the people  who go to that
Museum. The exhibits are simply interesting and nice to  see. As for their
educational value, they are worthless, except to a few people.

Dr. Harvey stated that the committee had thousands of pounds worth of
specimens at the Museum, and, unless something was done, they would lose
them. In view of the promise of former Premiers, the Government ought to
carry out the additions. If, however, the State was going to be
embarrassed by the expenditure of the £13,000, no doubt the attitude of
the Minister was the correct one. He could not think that such would be
the case, and he reminded the Minister that, the world over, the
importance of providing and equipping institutions of that kind was
recognised.

Mr. Illingworth : That is only one item. It is the large number of
demands, when taken together, that make the position serious.

Mr. Battye thought the Minister was wrong in saying that Melbourne, when
the population of Victoria was half a million, did not enjoy such
facilities as Perth had now.

Mr. Illingworth : There was no such accommodation in the Public Library in
Melbourne when the population of Victoria was 500,000 as you have here. I
was in it. I was there before you were born. In proportion to the
population, you have more accommodation now than they have. In conclusion,
Mr. Illingworth stated that the matter was not in his Department. He had
simply expressed his own private views on the general question. If,
however, the deputation would interview the Minister for Works, and
arrange with him for the erection of the desired additions the buildings,
he (Mr. Illingworth) would have to find the money. He was but one member
of the Ministry, and he could not conscientiously give their application
his support.

Sir James Lee Steere : Then, I think, we must bring pressure to bear
somewhere else.

The deputation then retired.